Showing posts with label finishing effects. Show all posts
Showing posts with label finishing effects. Show all posts

Saturday, 18 July 2015

Getting rusty - corrosion experiment part 3

The Hairspray Technique
After Wednesday's marathon 'rust' session I had a little breather. And I promise to keep this blog entry short and sweet!

While both the chemical rusting and 'salt chipping' techniques were new to me I have used the 'hairspray technique' a couple of times and am fairly confident about applying this method for getting a flaking paint effect. Though, again, this will be the first time I have used it at this kind of scale.

But that's what this experimental project is all about, so without further ado...


I decided to apply this technique to a couple of specific places - the bonnet (hood) and the left side door - and so began by masking out some of the adjacent areas. I am using the cheapest hairspray I could find and spraying it from the can (rather than decanting it and using my airbrush).

It has been suggested that using a water-based hairspray - rather than this cheap stuff - works better, but I actually could only find one example of this locally and it was quite expensive. But I will try that out at some point, just to compare the results.


I airbrushed on a couple of bright colours which would contrast nicely with the rusty base coat. The choice was a bit random but I suppose it goes with the idea that this car is an old battered wreck.


Applying some warn water with a brush I then scratched at the surface with an old stiff toothbrush for the big areas of flaked paint I wanted. Then I changed to a sharpened toothpick for the smaller patches and to break up the areas around the bigger patches so they looked more natural.

Every so often I would stop and dry the area I was working on by pressing a piece of kitchen towel on it. This stopped too much paint flaking away and helped the patch you had just done to dry and adhere properly. I also cleaned away any small flakes that had come away and were sticking up or pushed then back down on the surface if I felt I had flaked off too much paint.

It is, by nature, a bit of a hit and miss effect and proceeding very slowly - and referring to some photographic reference as you go - is the best course.

Once done I did go back over a couple of the patches I felt were over-done with a small paint brush and re-applied spots of the top-coat colour. In this way you can achieve some sort of control and modify the finished look to your tastes.

Finally, once these paint is completely dry I went around certain areas very lightly with a small piece of fine 'wet & dry' Emery Paper to fade the top coat paint and gradiate the effect between the top coat and the rusty base coat. (You can probably see this on the bonnet where the blue paint fades to light blue at the edge of the large central patch.)

And that's that...

Next: Some small finishing tests, weathering effects and one last try with the DM rusting chemical.

Friday, 13 February 2015

Revell 1/144 P-47 Republic Thunderbolt - Pt. 7

[Sub-title: Humbrol Polished Aluminium Metalcote experiment.]

Getting there (finally)! I've applied the decals which is always a nice stage to get to - it's like you've reached the summit of a hill and now it's the easy coasting to the end of the journey.

The Revell decals are very nice and slid off the backing paper very easily and lay on the surface without tearing. The colour was rich and - importantly - the white was nice and opaque. I used Microscale MicroSet to help attach the decals and conform to the raised panel lines of the kit.


Obviously there aren't a lot of decals and it didn't take long to apply them. The main problem I had with them - as usual - was getting them to sit straight, it takes me a while to position decals in what I think is 'level'. It's one of those things that's a matter of personal perspective (literally) and unfortunately, sometimes, when I look at decals I thought were straight the next day they don't appear as straight or level as I thought I had them!

Still, MicroSet is just as good at lifting decals for repositioning again as it is for adhering decals to the surface of your model. MicroSol, on the other hand - while softening decals to make them conform to deep ridges or lines in your model - does stick decals down more permanently or softens decals so much that they are in danger of disintegrating if you try to lift them off again (so if using MicoSol try hard to get it right the first time)!

And so...I'll give the model another light coat of Humbrol's acrylic Satin Varnish spray, just to help settle the decals onto the surface. Once it's dry I can think about pin-washing and weathering. Also, I'll starting to think about the dreadful propeller and what to do with it.

The prop is - to be honest - the worst part of the kit. It's so deformed and flash ridden that it's hardly recognisable as the P-47's distinctive 'paddle prop'.

The Thunderbolt series used - I believe - three different designs of prop and guess what? Yep, the Revell P-47 prop doesn't look exactly like any one of them! It vaguely resembles one of the Curtis designed 'paddle' props but the prop hub suggests the Hamilton prop - If I had to choose (and bearing in mind this is a P-47 'D' model) I'd say this was a badly done Curtis type prop.

I was very tempted to dispose of this part and instead make a fake 'rotating' prop out of a disc of transparent plastic (as this model is supposed to be in flight). I still may, it's - excuse the pun - 'up in the air' at the moment!

Bit of a shoddy 'snap' of the painted prop - painting has not
improved the look of it all that much!
Next: Last leg - as I decide how much post-production work to do (pin-washing, weathering, etc). Oh, and what to do about that darned prop!

Sunday, 8 February 2015

Revell 1/144 P-47 Republic Thunderbolt - Pt. 6

[Sub-title: Humbrol Polished Aluminium Metalcote experiment.]

I have been using kitchen cling-film as a masking medium - it wraps round awkward shapes nicely and is self-adhesive making the process easy. However, after my bad experience with it during my Plati-kote experiment I have turned to an alternative material for masking...Kitchen tin-foil (so didn't go too far from the kitchen then)!


Like cling-film kitchen foil wraps around odd-shaped objects easily and quickly. Important as I find masking a tedious task. I just have to tape down the foil to hold it in place, though obviously on bigger models I wouldn't have to mask the whole model!

Anyway, we're back on track - my P-47 has an acceptable basic paint scheme...


It's amusing to think that if I hadn't been messing around experimenting with different paints and techniques I could have finished this kit in just a couple of days, instead of the drawn out saga it's ended up being. (I intend to test out this theory once I have completed this project as I bought several of the Revell MicroWings kits while they were on offer.)

Anyway, at this point of the modelling process I would be thinking of applying a coat of varnish - satin or gloss - of maybe even Pledge Klear prior to decaling. But how will Metalcote react to a coat of varnish?

According to what I have read Metalcote needs to be varnished as it drys with a light texture - like a matt coat - and so will have problems (like 'silvering') when the decals are applied. But this idea caused me some concern as I remember what happened when I tried using varnish during my earlier Plasti-kote experiment - it completely tarnished the shiny coat and left it a dull matt silver.

Therefore, I decided to try out a small area on the lower wing as a test patch for glossing...

What am I looking at? Well, the fact you can't see anythings is actually a good
thing! The varnish hasn't discoloured the Metalcote silver. (Oh, and you can see
the bodge I made of the retracted undercarriage - doesn't look too bad.)
As you can see from the above picture Humbrol Gloss Varnish acrylic sprayed over Humbrol Aluminium Metalcote doesn't have a detrimental affect on the metallic coat at all. Super!

...So it's on with the next step which is the painting of the canopy.

I wanted to try a dark canopy - rather than a sky-blue one which some people prefer - and so started with a matt black base. Onto this I started painting on layers of deep blue artist's ink and leaving it to dry after each layer until I got a deep rich and translucent royal blue effect. Onto this I added a wash of white ink, and then another deep blue coat on top of this...


I'll let this coat dry again and have a further play with the canopy scheme as I think I can improve it. Once I'm happy with that it will be time to gloss varnish the whole model ready to add the decals.

Friday, 6 February 2015

Revell 1/144 P-47 Republic Thunderbolt - Pt. 5

[Sub-title: Humbrol Polished Aluminium Metalcote experiment.]

Well, I've polished up the Humbrol Metalcote and it looks OK. See what you think...



It's not a high reflection shine like the Plasti-kote was, but there again this actually worked!

Working with Humbrol Metalcote...
I followed the Humbrol Metacote video tutorial almost exactly - as far as I could tell - but I did not get the same results.

The video shows a result where the sample model did end up with a highly reflective metal shine. As you can see mine was more of a subdued shine, which is quite nice but not quite as good as the Humbrol example.

I found that my initial - perhaps overly cautious - light sprays of the Metalcote did not seem to be thick enough to stand up to the vigorous polish needed to make the paint really shine. So, I took a chance and repeated the process by adding a second round of sprayed coats. (The Humbrol video showed a single round of spray passes - that was a couple of light passes in one direction, covering the model, which were left to dry for half and hour, then followed by another series of light passes in a cross-wise direction. The model was then left to dry over night.)

By the way - don't be tempted to try using a Dremel, or similar hobby tool, to do the polishing. Even if - like me - you have what you think is the appropriate 'soft' polishing discs. My brother was concerned that the high-rev of the Dremel might actually 'melt' or damage the plastic of the kit, but it didn't - what it did do was over-polish and tarnish the Metalcote. It actually turned the Humbrol paint black! I'm afraid this is a job for a soft cloth and plenty of elbow grease.

After leaving my second model over-night again I started the hand-polishing and this time I did get more of a shine. The cloth does show that the polishing does remove a small amount of the paint which is why I reckon giving a double coat helps the process.


In fact, I am tempted to experiment further and give a scrap piece of plastic a triple coat to see what happens. My theory is that the hardier (i.e. 'thicker') the Metalcote application the more aggressively you can polish the paint without being in danger of completely removing the metallic paint. Worth a try.

What next?
Right, back to the model. I'm actually quite please with the actual modelling progress with this - even though all this experimentation has prolonged the actual time it has taken to make this little kit.

So, now I have to add the colour accents to the model; the red engine cowl, the orange tail and the black anti-dazzle panel on the top of the fuselage.

I have to start thinking about panel shading and 'weathering'. Do I panel shade? (In two minds.)

We shall see in part 6 of this extended experiment.

Sunday, 1 February 2015

Revell 1/144 P-47 Republic Thunderbolt - Pt. 4

[Sub-title: Humbrol Polished Aluminium Metalcote experiment.]

Not looking very nice at the moment my P-47 has had it's disastrous first paint
coat stripped back to the black primer coat. (I left the tail as that looked OK.)
Having had a bit of a 'time out' to lick my wounds I had a bit of a think and did some more research. My main reason for looking at something cheap and easily available like Plasti-kote was that all the other means of achieving a polished reflective metal paint coat seemed to be specialist modelling mediums that were fairly expensive, complicated to apply or hard to get hold of. But as the Plasti-kote was an abysmal 'fail' it was back to the drawing board.

Quite by chance I came across a product by Humbrol - of all people - called 'Metalcote' that seemed to fit the bill as being cheap, easy to use (just a couple of coats of spray) and wonders necver cease as it was available in one of my local stores. So it would seem churlish not to give the stuff a go!

So here we are again, but with a less than pristine base coat (I tried my best to clean up the weary P-47 test model ). The Humbrol Metalcote tutorial that I found suggested that you prime with grey, so I decided to give that a go. I know from experience that a grey primer does help highlight any flaws in your model preparation and although I had already primed (with black) I wanted to follow the Humbrol instructions exactly. Here's the video, it's quite informative...



I went as far as to buy the proper Humbrol grey primer spray used in the video. I masked off the orange tail - as that looked alright - and I used this opportunity to attach the canopy this time. I have decided to spray the plane and canopy all in one and then paint the canopy. I have to say that the Revell canopy wasn't the best fit by any means and I had to resort to some filling to get the windshield to fit flush with the fuselage (but even so it was a bit of a bodge).


I'm a little unsure just how to paint the canopy - in the style of war gaming aircraft - as I don't have much experience in this technique. Most seem to go for a plain sky blue scheme, some others paint the canopy with a nicely shaded pattern with white at the edges to deep blue in the middle, or variations thereof...

Example of small model with a painted and shaded canopy scheme.
Credit: Rust and the City Blog
So this part will be a sort of experiment within an experiment!

Anyway, onwards. In the end I decided to strip off the orange paint on the tail as well as I'm trying to make a clean start of things. The Humbrol Grey Acrylic Primer spray goes on very nicely, but even so I was nervous that any of the previous paint layers would spoil the new coat...


Not bad! Very happy with that, it does give me a nice smooth base for further coats and I was glad to see that my cleaning and sanding of the previous paint had not adversely affected this next stage. There were no noticeable blemishes or 'bumps' where bits of stubborn paint remained.

A good start. But now onto the Humbrol Metalcote. I watched the Humbrol tutorial several times and tried my best to follow the techniques shown in the video. Spraying from a can is always a bit of a lottery and quality of coverage can be effected by many factors; whether the can is new, whether the spray nozzle is clean, the distance at which you spray and the speed and regularity with which you spay.

Spray too close and the coat will be too thick (the Humbrol video recommends a distance of 20cm), spraying too long in one area has the same affect. Use an old can or a can with a old or dirty nozzle and you might get 'splutter'. A steady speed and spray pattern can also help produce a better coat - as commonly known, a couple of thinner coats is better than one thick coat...


I followed the spray pattern shown in the Humbrol video, two light passes over the model in one direction - allow this coat to dry for 30 minutes or so then spray another two light passes over the model in a cross-wise direction (so twice 'up and down' followed by twice 'left to right' for example).

It didn't look half bad, certainly a much better quality coverage than the Plasti-kote Bright Metallic paint that I first tried. Not too thick and nice and smooth.

At this point the Humbrol Metalcote is a dull silver but with flecks of reflective particles all over.

Next: Hopefully in the final part of my experiments I will be buffing up the Humbrol paint to produce a polished aluminium effect. Fingers crossed!

Sunday, 25 January 2015

Revell 1/144 P-47 Republic Thunderbolt - Pt. 2

[Sub-title: Plasti-Kote experiment No. 2]

Right, it's crunch time...

But before I get to the nerve-wracking Plasti-kote spraying I have to lay down the primer coat. I'm sticking with Halford's enamel car touch up spray, I think it does a satisfactory job (I haven't tried a specialist primer which you apply with an airbrush yet, I'll use up the last of the Halford's first).


Black does look nice doesn't it? (Note to myself: Must do a night fighter at some point! Airfix has just released a new tooling of it's 1/72 Boulton Paul Defiant. Hmmmm...)

Anyway, one little quandary was the canopy. As mentioned in the initial post, there is no pilot or cockpit detail and as I want this model 'in flight' I am going to disguise this fact by painting a faux-canopy (in war-game fashion). Not having done this before I wasn't sure at what point to affix the canopy to the plane - thinking about it now I wish I had attached it before priming so that it was a flush and integral component. Ah, well - you live and learn!

The Plasti-kote coat! (Du-du-duuuuh!)
Now, one thing - I'm having a right kerfuffle photographing 'chrome' finished. I really should set ip my mini-studio lighting, but I can't be bothered raking through our attic to find them. So, the following photos are a little hit and miss.

Well, here we go...Fingers crossed...

First, a bit darker (high flash) to bring out the reflections...
And then lighter to show the texture.
Now, I'm a little disappointed and mildly pleased at the same time (but more disappointed).

In my first test I mentioned that I thought that the best way to achive a smooth, high reflection finish with Plasti-kote Brilliant metalic was to spray one, fast pass and hope for the best coverage (just touching up any small imperfections and spotty coverage with a light focused spray). This time however - as this is all about experimentation - I decided to gamble and follow Plasti-kote's own suggestions about a second coat (thereby ensuring total coverage).

I had read that additional spray coats with this sort of bright metallic paint resulted in subsequently duller finishes. This seems to be true - although the 2-coat finish isn't all that bad, it's not 'chrome' but rather what I would call 'polished steel'.

Actually, there is rather a nice effect if you look close - it is like a machine polished surface...

If I were doing a 1/72 model of Lindbergh's 'Spirit of St. Louis' this might be a nice effect!
But...There is also a less desirable 'speckling'. And remember, you cannot 'smooth out' this unwanted texture by adding a gloss varnish - you cannot varnish Plasti-kote Bright Metallic.

Obviously, at a distance the finish looks acceptable, certainly for a war-game modeller who might simply want the look of high-polish quickly. But for the (ambitious) display modeller this quality of finish would be totally unacceptable.

In short, my 'one pass' theory is probably correct - but trying to get a good coverage with just one coat is, as I mentioned after experiment No. 1, down to pure luck (which isn't what you really want to rely on as a modeller).

Conclusion
OK. I'll put this one down as a 'fail'. Maybe a bit harsh and not a total loss as this was an experiment after all, but the texture just doesn't work for me I'm afraid.


Looking back at my Hobby Boss Mig-15 - which I did with just normal Humbrol acrylic silver spray - I think I preferred the duller but smoother silver finish...


Amusingly - re-reading my Mig-15 blog post - I do mention that I didn't enjoy working with a silver finish. Little has changed it seems.

But, I think my mind is made up that if I do want a professional looking high reflection and smooth finish and it's a display model it really is worth going the extra yard and using one of the specialist modelling metal finish mediums, like Alcad. Horses for courses.

At a distance look...At this distance the spotty texture isn't as obvious. But it's still there!
What next?
Well, naturally, I want to finish the P-47 model off, and there are still some things to learn about Plasti-kote - like how does it handle masking?

So, in the third and final part of this experiment I will adding the remaining areas of colour, the canopy and the decals.

Friday, 23 January 2015

Plasti-kote 'Brilliant Metallic' spray experiment

Photo credit: Matthias Dorst - The Warbird Information Exchange. And no, I
do not think they used Plasti-kote on this beautiful P-51!
I'm a great believer that you don't really know about modelling techniques until you try them yourself. While there are a great many comments on model forums about this and that technique and a great many example photos you never really quite know the full process that these modellers undertook to get that final shot or opinion. Plus - importantly - a lot of modellers are a bit shy about showing off their failures, which of course teach you as much about a technique as do the successes.

Thus, I am undertaking a test of a fairly well documented medium because I need to see - close up - exactly what Plasti-Kote 'Brilliant Metallic' spray paint does (or doesn't) do.

I am interested in this paint as it's very readily available and - unlike many proprietary specialist modelling chrome solutions - is comparatively cheap. I don't profess this would be an expert modellers choice but rather a possible 'quick effect' for war-gamers. But before we talk about using Plasti-kote on models lets get an idea what the product is actually intended for...

Platsti-kote 'Brilliant Metallic' spray is not - apparently - just another metallic-effect paint but, to quote Plasti-kote themselves: "This specially formulated paint is made from tiny metallic particles which are highly reflective."

What this means in practical terms is the paint produces a highly polished and near mirror effect, rather like chrome. For modelling this would - in theory - be really useful for models like aircraft with bare metal or polished aluminium surfaces (like some WW2 fighters and post-war jets). Obviously this is NOT what Plasti-kote was intended for - so bear that in mind.

I did some research about it's use for modelling but information was sparse, it seemed, and what there was was not very encouraging. The consensus being that this product was not a suitable medium for the serious modeller. Well, never let it be said that I am a serious modeller!

Undercoating for metallic sprays
There was a general view that if you are going to use these sort of 'general craft' or DIY metallic spray paint for modelling then you should lay down a good quality black enamel coat first.


I decided I needed a low-cost expendable guinea pig to try the Plasti-kote on and so delved into my 'scrap toy box' and came out with a horrible plastic aeroplane which I got in a bag'o'soldiers from the local Pound store!

My undercoat was a layer of good old Hallford's black car touch up spray paint. I went for matt though there are some who suggest gloss - I think it is a matter of personal preference. As usual this went on very nicely and did not noticeably eliminate any of the detail - such as it was - on the toy plane.

Why black? I'm not entirely sure, but I think it has something to do with creating a 'mirror effect' where it enhances the reflective properties of the metallic top coat...Maybe?

Working with Plasti-kote 'Brilliant Metallic'
I didn't have high hopes for the quality of spray from a can - by that I mean that I suspected that the paint molecules would be big and spat out in a dense cloud that could easily lead to over-spray. So I tried to off-set this danger by doing very quick light passes with the spray can, and this seems to have worked...

No...Before you say anything, I didn't bother to tidy up seams or clean off flash!

There is an element of luck in this as the idea is to get one light coat with perfect coverage in one go! I am told that over-spraying is not a good idea as the thicker the coat or the more coats you add the duller the paint effect becomes. Although Platsi-Kote says: "Allow to dry for 10 minutes between coats. Touch dry in 10 minutes. Thoroughly dry in 2 hours."

In my opinion, less is definitely more in this case. Although I did have to re-spray two isolated areas where my coverage had been poor and it didn't seem to have all that much of a detrimental effect.

Working on-top of Plasti-kote
Now, all very well and good...Much to my surprise, I now have an attractive 'mirror finish' coat. Coverage was quite good - as it was a new can there was no splatter - and smoothness of coat was OK (though to be fair the quality of the toy plane's surface was less than perfect).

In effect the Brilliant Metallic is a gloss paint, which has some implications if you intend to work over this surface.

Trying to brush paint matt acrylics onto this glossy surface is a bit of a bugger, enamels would fair better I suspect but the best way to cope with it is to spray any further colour areas on. I tried out some patches of colour using Humbrol acrylic spray can paints and a couple of thin coats worked well.

I did the orange stripe around the fuselage with Vallejo acrylic using the airbrush
and despite the Plasti-kote being high-shine gloss it actually went on very nicely. 
The good news is that - because the Plasi-kote is glossy - decaling is a breeze. No need to prep the surface by laying down a gloss varnish...


Again I consulted what internet references I could find and the general view seems to be that decals can be applied directly onto the Plasti-kote and similar bright metallics as they are already - effectively - gloss coats. The decals took to the surface quite well and with no silvering, and I used some micro sol just to aid the decal settle into the panel lines. BUT...

Unless you paint some sort of varnish directly onto the decal - carefully avoiding the Plasti-kote - you should avoid sealing the decal for the following reasons...

Sealing Plasti-kote painted modelsThere is always a 'but' somewhere in anything you do, and sure enough here comes the 'but'!

Finishing off the model you have painted using Plasti-kote Brilliant Metallic poses something of a quandary. Usually I would finalise my model by sealing the whole thing with a thin coat of satin or matt varnish...YOU CANNOT VARNISH PLASTI-KOTE BRILLIANT METALLIC!

Plasti-kote warn: "If a sealer is applied over the top it will stop the particles from reflecting in the light and the paint will appear duller."

I did an experiment and sure enough...

Vanished area on the left wing...Which is on the right!
I masked off slightly more than half the plane leaving the left wing and tail exposed. I then sprayed on a light coat of Humbrol's Acrylic Gloss Varnish, the result was immediate and obvious. The varnished surface lost it's lustrous mirror effect and became dull and flat.

So I did some more intensive web research on the issue and found a couple of articles where the authors suggest that if you do use a mirror effect paint like this then you should leave your model unsealed. This means you will have to decide what to do about any additional painted surfaces you apply over the Plasti-kote and consider how to deal with decals.

Incidentally, I tried out hand-brushing a small area with Pledge Klear - which happens to be a very nice crystal clear varnish - instead of spraying on a specialist acrylic varnish. The result was little better that the Humbrol lacquer and the Klear tended to pool more resulting in unsightly dull blotches all over.



Conclusion - the pros and cons
OK, well this did go a bit better than I expected. The bottom line is that IF you do want a mirror finish on a model BUT don't want to spend a lot of cash and time on advanced modelling mediums OR have a lot of models to do quickly then MAYBE Plasti-kote Brilliant Metallic spray paint is an option.

That said, there is no doubt that - for display modellers - that there will be too many down sides for this to be considered an ideal solution. The quality of the coating from a mere 'rattle can' could never be as good as a proprietary effects paint delivered from a fine airbrush. The thickness of the coating and the unpredictability of the coverage makes the whole thing unviable.


In the end the product is what it is and trying to make it do something it was never intended to do was alway likely to end in one way. It's a no-brainer really. BUT for the war-game modeller there is some use to be derived from this paint, particularly if you are doing a number of the same type of model and time is an issue. As long as you are aware of the issues connected with working with this sort of product then you will not be surprised by any of it's accompanying quirks.

And finally, how to do 'chrome' properly?
You will, of course, make your own mind up on how successful or appropriate Plasti-Kote is as a bright metallic medium, but here are a couple of links to show you how expert modellers tackle this tricky finish...


Link to Plasti-kote (UK) 'Brilliant Metallic' product page

Friday, 11 October 2013

Mud, mud, glorious (Vallejo) mud!

Time to get some mud on the underside of my Pegasus ISU-122. I am trying out some of Vallejo's pigment effects, specifically their 73109 Natural Umber.



A better and more authentic effect could be done if you take your time and by adding different shades of pigment to represent fresh and dry mud, dust and rust. But I am thinking 'war game' model and I think this quick application gets a nice effect for little effort...

Mmmmm...Nice and 'clumpy'


Applying the powder is very simple - I made a thin mix of PVA glue and water and brushed this onto the surfaces I wanted the mud to stick. I then sprinkled and dabbed on the pigment to get a mixture of dusty and clumpy mud effects. A final coat of matt varnish will 'fix' the effect.

I now know what to expect when using this medium and would be tempted to be a bit more adventurous - and careful - on a display model I have in mind. By layering the effects - using a variety of effects mediums - you could produce a very realistic mud effect indeed.

One thing I would say though, Vallejo pigments are comparatively expensive (I got mine in a sale otherwise I would balk at the price) and I think the cheap alternative of grinding up artist's conte crayons into powder would achieve just as good and effect at a fraction of the cost.